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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macheath View Post
    Sexy panda.
    Please tell me those are not YOUR lips Mac! I might have nightmares otherwise.

  2. #12
    Darth Small Macheath's Avatar
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    Wow, that's... wow.
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  3. #13
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    Thought provoking!
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  4. #14
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    If the shoe fits (and it does)
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macheath View Post
    If the shoe fits (and it does)
    Yeah, no real achievements for the U.S. over the last 50 years. We never landed a man on the moon, or invented whole fields of industry, or helped countless countries with foreign aid, or ...

    Yeah, we suck.

    My point: Yeah, we have our problems, no doubt. But it's just too easy to fall into the trap of thinking that since we could have done better, we didn't do anything. That's just a non-starter. America has a lot to answer for, no question about it, but we also have a great deal to be proud of.
    - Definitely

  6. #16
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    I don't think the main point is that the U.S. hasn't accomplished anything. On the contrary, he does point out that we rock the world's face off in terms of Olympic medals, Nobel prizes, etc. The problem is how badly we've let our general populace deteriorate. At least that's my view. I wouldn't be surprised if the average citizen were significantly less educated and well cared-for than they were fifty years ago. "Greedy, culturally impotent, arrogant fundamentalists with no respect for science" just seems especially apt.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macheath View Post
    I don't think the main point is that the U.S. hasn't accomplished anything. On the contrary, he does point out that we rock the world's face off in terms of Olympic medals, Nobel prizes, etc. The problem is how badly we've let our general populace deteriorate.
    Mac, you are uncharacteristically generous in your analysis here. You substitute your own reasonable, measured point for this guy's (probably) drunken screed he decided to spew into the cloud.

    Look at what the guy said:

    You may top the tables for Olympic gold medals and Nobel prizes but per capita you are way down the list, you only succeed because you have the weight of numbers and dollars
    Well, there goes the bit about saying we rock with Olympic medals and Nobel prizes. He pretty much dismisses any contributions we've made to science in that sentence as well. Odd that we have no regard for science yet somehow manage to "top the tables" in Nobel prizes. Well, maybe it's only because of our massively large population as he says. If any other country in the world had our population they'd have the most Nobel prizes as well.

    Your cultural contribution is negligible and consists of reruns of friends and Scrubs
    I think he's pretty clearly saying we've done nothing culturally. Patently ridiculous, of course. I can provide a list of contributions if necessary.

    ...but you have wasted your time at the top. You have betrayed the ideals of your founding fathers - liberty, enlightenment, and democracy - by becoming a bunch of fundamentalist morons with no respect for culture or science who torture and detain without trial. History will judge you as losers.
    I think he's pretty much declaring the entirety of American history irrelevant here. He's saying we had our shot and have done nothing with it in any respect. No massive sweeping generalizations going on there.

    Here are some statements of his which I find just plain odd:

    It took you 40 years to defeat the USSR in the cold war despite the fact blah blah blah blah
    Uhm, is he suggesting we should have followed Patton's advice and invaded at the conclusion of WWII? Perhaps he's saying we should have been much more ruthless in our dealings with the Soviets. Maybe should have broken out the nukes before the Reds ever got the bomb, I suppose. Yeah, we're losers.

    You never had an empire
    What? That's a bad thing? How loserish of us that we didn't capture huge portions of the Earth and oppress the indigenous people for generations. What a proud history England has on that score. I'm so disappointed in us that we don't share that same glory.

    ...healthcare system excludes 40 million...
    I guess he hasn't read any American newspapers in the last year or so.

    There are a lot of words which can describe this diatribe, but "apt" isn't one of them in my opinion. I've heard more incisive historical commentary from Glenn Beck.
    - Definitely

  8. #18
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    Wow, you're really missing my point.

    I'm not going to expend effort to defend an anonymous 4chan rant, because for the most part, yes, it's hyperbolic garbage not worth discussing. What I termed "apt" was not the diatribe as a whole, but his description of our teeming masses, which was dead on:

    Quote Originally Posted by Macheath View Post
    The problem is how badly we've let our general populace deteriorate. At least that's my view. I wouldn't be surprised if the average citizen were significantly less educated and well cared-for than they were fifty years ago. "Greedy, culturally impotent, arrogant fundamentalists with no respect for science" just seems especially apt.
    The dumbitude of the average American citizen horrifies me. Is our entire society culturally impotent and scientifically ignorant? No. We as a nation produce art and science, that's not up for debate. Is a randomly selected average citizen probably both of those things in spades, however? Oh, you betcha.

    A comment like "60% of you think the world was created 5000 years ago" just makes me cringe, because it's embarrassing and true. 60%? No, not actually, this country couldn't possibly be 60% Young Earth Creationist. But it's a high number, and it's terrifying to contemplate.
    Last edited by Macheath; 10-24-2010 at 12:57 AM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macheath View Post
    Wow, you're really missing my point.

    I'm not going to expend effort to defend an anonymous 4chan rant, because for the most part, yes, it's hyperbolic garbage not worth discussing. What I termed "apt" was not the diatribe as a whole, but his description of our teeming masses, which was dead on:

    The dumbitude of the average American citizen horrifies me.
    I think what confused me was the fact that you approached it by redefining the guy's main point. If you had replied with "This is mostly crap, but what he says about the general U.S. population is pretty right on" I might have reacted differently. So while I missed your point, I think you missed the author's point. The author comes off as a Brit who never got past the fact that the sun set on the British empire 100 years ago and the U.S. ate their lunch ever since.
    - Definitely

  10. #20
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    And, actually, as I reread the article, the guy doesn't talk about the general U.S. population at all. He talks about America as a single entity. He doesn't make any point about the state of the average American. He talks about America.

    I agree with your thoughts on the average American. I suspect reading this guy's post somehow triggered that train of thought in your head, but any meaningful ideas about the average American came from your mind, not his post.
    - Definitely

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