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Thread: Star Trek

  1. #31
    Darth Small Macheath's Avatar
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    Duuuude... has anyone else watched The Orville? I heard it was good, but I never sat down to check it out. Discovery was enough new Star Trek shows for me.

    But shit. Discovery is in this alternate "grittyverse" timeline. It's fine, but it does nothing to evoke the hopeful, optimistic, positive feel of the original Trek shows.

    The Orville, on the other hand, feels and sounds and looks exactly like TNG/DS9/Voyager, except in a world where people are still people (and not weird, perfect, future-robot-people). The humor is not over the top, as I expected... it's more like Firefly level. Otherwise, the show takes itself totally seriously, and does a beautiful job. I'm so happy with this shit, I'm gonna watch every single episode post-haste.

    All these attempts to "reboot" Star Trek have been fun, but ultimately they're missing the point. The Orville is literally the best Star Trek show since DS9 (sorry, Captain Janeway).

    Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm01FIfX6Sc&t=45s
    Last edited by Macheath; 01-01-2019 at 06:34 PM.

  2. #32
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    Yep just started watching it on hulu last week. Its my treadmill series at the moment so I'm only a few episodes in season 1 since they are like 40 minutes + commercials. I also feel like I'm watching the next generation if it was done by a fan of that series who is now my age.

  3. #33
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    I've been watching The Orville from the beginning. I never watched the original star treks so I don't know how to compare it. To me it feels like a parody that never actually "cracks the joke," and ends up just being a good show. I kept waiting for the parody zingers to come, but they never really did.

  4. #34
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    Just watched Orville 2x03, and witnessed Robert Picardo acting in scenes with Dr. Phlox, meanwhile Patrick Warburton is playing a member of a species with two esophagi ("one inside, one outside, so we can really pound food... just pound it") and I love this show and Fox is definitely gonna cancel it.

  5. #35
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    In the most recent episode of The Orville (2x05), during a first contact event Dr. Finn witnesses a premature C-section birth, and when she asks why it was performed she's given the explanation that it's to avoid children being born "Jeliac." She allows her sense of cultural decorum to overwhelm her intellectual curiosity, fails to ask any clarifying questions, and therefore the crew is forced to move forward without the knowledge of what the fuck a "Jeliac" is, thus enabling the entire plot to unfold. I feel that a Union officer (and moreover a medical doctor) would not make this mistake. Immersion broken, show ruined.

    Sarcasm aside, this was the worst episode of the entire series so far. Which is a shame, because the two episodes that immediately precede it (2x03-04) were probably the best. It felt (still feels, but felt) like the show was really hitting its stride, and then this bombshell of mediocrity hit.

    EDIT: One other reason I didn't care for the episode is that I was frustrated by the total lack of common sense remedies. Most episodes, when I think of something the crew should do, they do it (or something similar, or better). This time... why not point out that constellations look completely different from other vantage points in the galaxy? Or that calendars differ and months have different lengths? Why not fly a cloaked shuttle down to the surface and scoop up the captured crew members in the dead of night? No. What we should do here is simulate a star randomly re-igniting after 3000 years, and make the desperate assumption that it will change everyone's minds. Eyeroll.
    Last edited by Macheath; 01-27-2019 at 11:56 AM.

  6. #36
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    I didn't feel the same way about the episode. I think we were supposed to feel the frustration along with them. Not because they "failed to ask clarifying questions" but because they have rigid rules on how to perform a "First Contact" and those rigid rules can lead to frustrating situations.

    To me, the medical officer's behavior reflected this in that her scanner told here the fetus and mother were perfectly healthy. There's no reason to ask clarifying questions because it's obviously not a medical issue. She knows that. That leaves a religious or societal issue that won't be resolved during a tour of a medical facility, and could raise tension. Since this is a tour of a medical facility of a sovereign planet it's not the appropriate time to question and challenge their practices. That can happen tomorrow when we bring down the "heal everything beam" and have time to review and discuss medical stuff.

    I think we were SUPPOSED to feel that frustration. It's not that the common sense remedies weren't considered it's that they weren't available due to policy. The "constellations are different from different vantage points" either won't matter to a planet with only an astrology-level understanding of the stars, OR could lead to a collapse of their religious/societal beliefs. Neither of those are particularly useful outcomes. My impression was that the union had chosen an approach that would not harm the existing society. Instead opting to feed them knowledge and technology in the hopes that the society's beliefs would correct themselves with more knowledge.

    The cloaked shuttle would have worked, but as Admiral(?) Sam Malone(!) said, that would be taking military action with vastly superior technology against a First Contact planet. This is not desirable because the union doesn't want to begin the relationship with the new planet with a show of force. That gave me the feeling that the union goes to extreme measures to play a role something like the gentle, loving, older sibling. Letting the new planet wrestle with their new knowledge at their own pace. As opposed to the Krill and hinted-at Other Groups that would destroy, enslave, etc. the new planet. It's a frustrating, imperfect, policy which tied Mercer's hands, but also feels like a good policy overall. That is, aside from outlier situations where the inhabitants of the planet are totally whack-a-doodle about star signs.

    I'm not super satisfied with their solution either, but we're both considering it from the perspective of people who understand the concept of stars, galaxies, black holes, etc. If we try to step into the shoes of someone who doesn't know about that stuff and their entire knowledge and science of space is based around monitoring constellations, it's possible to understand how they could be fooled by a "star" appearing in the constellation. Also that the arrival/disappearance of a part of a constellation would be a BIG DEAL. The crew did mention hacking the satellites to think the thing is a star in an admittedly cheap hand-wavy "it'll be fine" kind of way. I was actually thinking about things similar to this during the SUPER BLOOD WOLF MOON. Imagine being someone with a pre-Copernicus level of knowledge of the moon, sun, and other celestial bodies. Living your peasant life and measuring time around the phases of the moon and then one night the moon slowly goes out then turns RED! What would you think? It'd be scary and you might even begin to search for meaning or a cause for it. You probably wouldn't question that it was the actual moon.

    In short, yes, there were "easy" solutions, but the policies and procedures for First Contact by a Union that tries to act benevolently forced a diplomatic solution. Mercer ended up going with deception which is decidedly not diplomatic. There was a line near the end of the episode where they basically say they're hoping that once the planet learns more and figures out what happened they'll have outgrown their beliefs in astrology. It will be interesting to see if they ever revisit that planet.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by liuv View Post
    I didn't feel the same way about the episode. I think we were supposed to feel the frustration along with them.
    I agree. But I don't think I was feeling their frustration, I was feeling frustrated by (in my opinion) poor writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by liuv View Post
    There's no reason to ask clarifying questions because it's obviously not a medical issue. She knows that. That leaves a religious or societal issue that won't be resolved during a tour of a medical facility, and could raise tension.
    He spoke in such somber tones about "Jeliac" babies... Claire knew he was risking lives to perform an unnecessary procedure, so the meaning of "Jeliac" seems like an important factoid at that point. She should want to know why, and a single word of jibberish shouldn't have satisfied her. Not trying to get even one more scrap of information there made her seem like an intellectually incurious person.

    But I could buy your explanation. It wasn't the "Jeliac" thing in the hospital that frustrated me, so much as all the other stuff I mentioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by liuv View Post
    could lead to a collapse of their religious/societal beliefs
    They don't care about this anymore. "Is anyone out there?" gives them cause to initiate first contact, and now it's time to pump these poor Luddites full of galactic information. They were actually looking forward to blowing these people's minds.

    Quote Originally Posted by liuv View Post
    The cloaked shuttle would have worked, but as Admiral(?) Sam Malone(!) said, that would be taking military action with vastly superior technology against a First Contact planet.
    No, I don't think shuttles were ever mentioned in the conversation with Ted Danson. He was primarily concerned with weapons, violence, and military action. The idea of a secret, unarmed shuttle was never raised, and the idea that it might represent a "show of force" was never explored. This is a great example of how they could have solved my issues with the episode, though. Even slightly more thoughtful writers would have said, "Why don't they just XXXX? Let's drop a line in the Ted Danson convo that precludes the possibility, boom."

    Quote Originally Posted by liuv View Post
    I'm not super satisfied with their solution either, but we're both considering it from the perspective of people who understand the concept of stars, galaxies, black holes, etc. If we try to step into the shoes of someone who doesn't know about that stuff and their entire knowledge and science of space is based around monitoring constellations, it's possible to understand how they could be fooled by a "star" appearing in the constellation.
    Sure, I don't really mind that their solution had the desired effect. These are clearly superstitious people. It's just the fact that it worked instantly, so quick and effective that it interrupted a freaking execution-in-progress, and it was really just a total goddamn Hail Mary.

  8. #38
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  9. #39
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    The IMDB ratings for the last couple Orville episodes are teaching me that most people who watch this show value different things about it than I do.

    • 2x06: Claire dates a robot, hilarious! Bortus gets a mustache, hilarious! Norm MacDonald shows up! LOLOL, high meme potential, internet loves it. 8.4 rating.
    • 2x07: Mostly serious, unfunny examination of cultural issues, relationship problems, social commentary. I thought the acting was great and the episode had good emotional weight. 7.5 rating.

    Both good episodes, I thought. But the "wacky shit" episode shouldn't have been rated higher than a really good dramatic episode. I love the Star Trekkiness of The Orville, and I fear most viewers love the Seth MacFarlaniness. I guess we can all enjoy what we enjoy, I just hope it doesn't bifurcate the audience and move the show closer to cancellation.

  10. #40
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    Whole lot of bared teeth in this week's episode. Good shit, this is what I signed up for. Bared teeth.
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